Lead In 30 Podcast

Say What You Think! How to Create Tight Feedback Loops

• Russ Hill

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Do they know what you think? Are you sharing your beliefs? How long do you wait before saying what you really think?

You're impacting and steering the efficiency of your team. In this episode Lone Rock Leadership cofounder Russ Hill shares why a tight feedback loop is critical to delivering results. 

• Feedback loops streamline communication and foster trust 
• Seeking feedback is the first and most important step 
• Appreciative feedback increases receptiveness to constructive critique 
• Constructive feedback should be specific and actionable 
• Deliver feedback promptly to ensure relevance 
• Direct conversations enhance understanding over written communication 
• Embrace discomfort to develop feedback skills and confidence

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Speaker 1:

the value of a tight feedback loop. Say what you're thinking in this episode.

Speaker 2:

This is the Lead in 30 podcast with Russ Hill. You cannot be serious. Strengthen your ability to lead in less than 30 minutes.

Speaker 1:

So many of you suck at this. You're just not good at it. Many of you suck at this. You're just not good at it. And that's how do I know that? How can I make that statement when I don't even know who you are? Like you could be anywhere in the world working for any organization. We got entrepreneurs and business owners listening. We've got senior executives of big corporations. We got people in Europe, we got people in Asia across. The point is, it doesn't matter. I've had so much experience, there's so much data that I can say with certainty that most of you, most of us, aren't good at tight feedback loops. Why does it matter? And what do I mean by tight? And what is a feedback loop? Let's dig into it.

Speaker 1:

But first, welcome in to the Lead in 30 podcast in less than 30 minutes. A framework, a model, an experience, a best practice to get you to think how you can more effectively lead others. Lone Rock Leadership is the name of our firm I'm one of the co-founders is an incredible team from some amazing organizations that we've assembled together, and they are. They are amazing. Lone rockio is where you can find out more about our organization. Lead in 30 is not only the name of the podcast, but also the name of a 30 day leadership training that we provide. We do it in person, a full day here or there. It doesn't have to be 30 there, it doesn't have to be 30 days and it doesn't have to be virtual, but that is how the most of the organizations that utilize our training content do it at scale had one company train over 2,800 leaders in one quarter using lead in 30. It's all about results. So the problem that lead in 30, the training solves is how do you improve, strengthen, execution, performance, results, delivery results. It teaches leaders how to do that. We've got other content as well. I don't talk a lot about it, but I will in the weeks and months ahead.

Speaker 1:

Around decisions. That's the key. That's the key to scaling an organization is around decisions. What about changing? Managing through change, leading through change and adapt, helping people to adapt? That's huge, and the change could be internal or external. And then what about accountability? We call it powerful versus powerless. So often we feel powerless in relationships and organizations and it's actually a choice. Woo, that will elicit some emotion and some reaction when we say that it's actually a choice to feel powerless when you could be leaning into showing up powerfully and leaning into gaining and demonstrating power, and when we say power, we mean energy toward achieving the outcomes you desire. Anyway, we've got a lot more about that. If you're interested in any of that and I'll talk more about it in upcoming episodes lonerockio is where you find out about it.

Speaker 1:

Alrighty, so let's talk about a tight feedback loop. I was listening to a podcast, a conversation with some financial, some investment folks that were talking the other day and it really got me thinking they were talking about. This person was making the point. We've been teaching feedback, the value of feedback, for like 20 years. Like it is core. It was a big part of um, our, the firm that we used to work at, where we taught the Oz principle above the line, below the line. That feedback's embedded in there. It's the, the. It's a key part of being above the line. They call it the see it step. Uh, roger Connors, tom Smith, our good friends and um, the authors of the Oz principle and the folks that we worked with for a long time. You know they, they, they really ingrained that in our minds and then you know, obviously feedback is an exclusive to the Oz principle or the firm we were working at at the time it's. It's embedded in a lot of training and content and books and principles and whatever else. We're just huge believers in it, and so often people complicate it and so I'm listening to this. So here I am with tons of experience working with executive teams on trying to strengthen their ability to seek and give feedback, to get better at it, because there's a right and a wrong way, a good, better and best way to do it Giving, seeking best way to do it, giving, seeking feedback, and it, it, it dramatically affects the efficiency of an organization.

Speaker 1:

That's the why behind it. You know it's time is wasted because we don't say we're thinking like an enormous amount of time, especially those of you that are listening who work in big organizations the meetings after the meetings, the calls after the calls, calls, I mean all that crap and you're holding on to a belief and you don't say it because you got fear and they've got it and all these sorts of things. You slow down your organization, you lose competitive advantage, innovation suffers and get everything. So I mean it affects so much this, this issue of feedback, and so I want to teach some of the basic principles that around it, and then I want you to think about um tight feedback loop. So in our firm, we, we, we created this model called the feedback loop. The feedback loop is, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not, um, something complicated. In fact, in my mind it's elegantly simple. And it's this whole idea that you know, you, you go out and we want to get good at seeking feedback that that's huge, that's hugely valuable. Am I actively looking for it? Do I want it? And so am I asking for it in all aspects of what I do? And then and then this, the framework, and this goes back to our honest principle days.

Speaker 1:

One of the things we really leaned into was appreciative and constructive feedback. That's what we called it there and it's basically. It's not positive and negative, it's not the good and the bad, it's just appreciative and constructive feedback, which there are all kinds of books, all kinds of frameworks, all kinds of models, all kinds of training, all kinds of content out there that talks about it in this context, but they overcomplicate it, and so you're more open to receiving constructive feedback if I first give you appreciative feedback. So, in other words, we have a meeting and you're running the meeting and I attend the meeting, and then you ask me hey, russ, what did you think about that? How'd you think I handled that topic or that meeting or that two day offsite or whatever it is?

Speaker 1:

Before I get to constructive, I've got to lead with appreciative. Hey, you know what? I thought you did really well, lisa are, and I give you the more specific, the more valuable the feedback, and so I'm giving that to you and I'm giving you appreciation. I thought that it was the way that you were. You were so prepared and I thought you facilitated the conversation incredibly effectively. On the agenda were the right topics.

Speaker 1:

Then I moved to constructive, and constructive feedback is what could we have done better? What should we have done more of? What should we have not done? What would have made that better? What would make me more effective, stronger, better in this situation or on this project, or in this organization or around this area? And constructive. You got to think.

Speaker 1:

Golf coach, you can see 120 things that are wrong with my stance, grip, equipment, all of that. You can't overwhelm me with that. You've got to give me just two or three. So the golf coach, the piano teacher, can see 120 things that are wrong, but you point out just a couple. The trainer at the gym does this if they're good, and so he just. You might do this differently. You might stop doing that or lean away from that or lean into that.

Speaker 1:

The more specific the better. So it's seeking feedback. There's constructive or appreciative, validating the contribution. That's the basic human need, the psychological element of it, what the data and the research shows. And if you want to go geek out in AI about it and overcomplicate it, go dig into it and you'll find 50 million different studies and models and frameworks. But complicated never sticks, it never gets used.

Speaker 1:

If you're teaching feedback in a way or your organization doesn't have a framework for it, then of course nobody's good at it because you don't have been taught them how to be it. You're not, you don't have a systematized approach that you're using in your organization or in your department or on your team or even for you personally. So that's what the value of the feedback loop is, why we teach it. I'm going to get to what I mean by tight in a minute, because this is kind of the most important element. I'm building up to it. And so you have this framework.

Speaker 1:

Again, we call it the feedback loop, which is seek feedback. That's kind of. If you're thinking about the circle. So I'm up on a whiteboard in front of you or your team, or I'm in your office or I'm, I'm, I'm connecting with you virtually right now, it's just pretend and I'm I'm teaching or demonstrating or drawing this model out. And so there's a circle, up at the top I write seek feedback. That's the beginning of the. Then I draw an arrow over and then it's appreciative feedback, give appreciative feedback whoever's giving it.

Speaker 1:

Then I draw the arrow over and it's constructive feedback, because I'm making the circle so appreciative, constructive. And then, and then the way that you respond to it is with gratitude. You just acknowledge the feedback, you validate it. That is not agreeing. Validating is not agreeing. Validating is, is, is the opposite of minimizing. And so I'm validating the feedback.

Speaker 1:

Ah, that's really interesting. Thank you for it. I appreciate that. Thanks for providing that perspective. Could you give me a little bit more context for this? Or whatever? What you're not doing is justifying, excusing, explaining, defending, ignoring, minimizing. None of that. Ah, that's, that's really good. Thank you for sharing that with me. And then I need time to process that, so I'm not going to come back to that immediately with oh yeah, we need to do this, that and the other whatever. No, no, no, no, no. Just let it stand. Let their comment, their observations be what stands out of that conversation, not your reaction, your reaction just simply validating. Thank you for that. That's really valuable. End of conversation. Got it? That makes what they said they walk away, go. Wow, that's interesting.

Speaker 1:

I think I really got them thinking they, they the way they reacted to that. No one's going to be open to my feedback until I'm seeking it, and when I am seeking it, it's making them more open to seek mine or others. Got it? Okay? So let's talk about type.

Speaker 1:

For some of you who've been working with us for years, or you've got experience, whatever, whatever, what I just shared, that feedback loop maybe you don't call it that, but that's that that, for those of you that have been working with us, you're familiar with kind of that framework or something similar to it. Others of you who aren't really good at feedback and you don't work at organizations that are good at it and you haven't been trained on it. That's new to you and um and and so, with that framework, that foundation, now I want to go into this podcast that I was listening to, this conversation between two people again financial analysts, people on Wall Street, tech folks and they're talking about tight, tight feedback. What does that mean? Tight feedback loop? And they even use the term feedback loop. I'm like, wow, it's such an effective way of what to call that the feedback loop. I'm like, wow, they're like they're it's, it's such an effective way of what to call that the feedback loop. And so you have to draw that, you have to demonstrate so people see what those things are over. And oh, they aren't going to get it till the fifth time you draw it in a meeting, the the seventh time that you share it in an offsite, the the the sixth time that you, whatever, you got the point repetition. So I, I'm going back there often, okay, teaching the principle, that's I mean as part of your development, your succession planning, your upskilling of those around you, just you doing it. Well, you've got to. You got to interpret why you're doing it. Okay, and so, um, a tight feedback loop. Here's the point. Loop, here's the point.

Speaker 1:

I'll give you a classic example. We, uh, as a firm, we uh we had a meeting recently and, uh, we're doing these things all the time, um, out in the marketplace, right? So these are with potential clients, um, potential organizations that are looking for consulting, training, whatever we're. We make a lot of noise in the marketplace, doing a lot of different things and all the time, and so we've got these events and different things always scheduled. So we have one of these recently and there are some things that were off the charts great like the team nailed it on these things. And then there were some things nothing that I um a burning platform, nothing that was bad. It was just we're always interested in being world-class, the absolute best we could be different, unique, tons of impact, and so we want people to go to any interaction, virtually or in person, with us to go, wow, that was engaging they, they facilitated the right conversation, they, it was simple, I could use that. That's interesting, okay, and so we're always looking to be better.

Speaker 1:

So there was some constructive feedback on it too. Well, how long did we wait to share that with the team, the people that were involved in that? The very next business, day, immediately, we go right to it. Day Immediately, we go right to it. So how tight your feedback loop is affects a lot. So it's another element I want you to think about, because if you're, if you're using that feedback loop. You're doing something like that, you're creating a culture of feedback, but you're waiting two weeks, two months to give me the feedback. It's way less efficient. It's way less effective. You got to get there right away. You got to share it, not in the. I would challenge you that very often it's not.

Speaker 1:

It suggests to you that very often the most effective way to provide feedback is not in the moment, it's the next day or a little, a little bit later. And and uh, there are lots of reasons for that. Right, you, you, you can nod your head to agree with me on that. Right Cause there could be a motion attached to it. And sometimes in the moment's great and important and good, but a lot of times it's an hour later or a day later or, you know, you've had a chance to sleep on it. If there's any kind of emotion attached to it, that's incredibly valuable.

Speaker 1:

And then let me give you a couple other pointers, as somebody who's had a ton of experience teaching this and watching executives and managers who are uncomfortable with feedback dip their toe into it and some experiment with it. You talk to them about it, you give them an experience to try it out, and they don't ever do it again, like they don't embed it in in their operating system, and others understand the value of it, and even though they're uncomfortable with it a little bit at the beginning, cause that's not the way that they were raised, so to speak, in leadership and management. It's not the culture of the organization that they work at now or used to work at, and so this is different and there's some growing pains with it. But when they lean into it, they see the value of it, how it is a massive competitive advantage to be able to have a tight feedback loop. Um, then, that the learning I'm going to share with you is from that, from watching people implement it and seeing the impact. Okay, here's another, another point that I would share with you when you have feedback. So I've had an experience with somebody and I've got strong opinions and I really want to provide feedback to them, like I'm dying to give them feedback.

Speaker 1:

The absolute worst way, the least effective, the most damaging, the way to do it that will make you look and afterwards feel the worst is typing it up and sending it. It's a terrible way to do it. Why? Why do I say that? Because so often it's just one way and there's interpretation that you need and there's interpretation that you need. So let's say that I, let's say that you make a decision and maybe, maybe you are my boss, you're my peer, a colleague. Whatever you make a decision, I'm going wow, I could not disagree with that more. Or there's a meeting and I didn't like I was maybe even offended by something that happened there. I'm not talking ethically Okay, that's a whole different category I'm talking about. I just wasn't the way I would have done it. I don't think it was the right move, like we should have done it differently. So it's a decision or it's an event, or it's something like that, and I really want to give you feedback. I want I just it's important to me, I've got emotion attached to it, I'm passionate about it. I want to let you know about it.

Speaker 1:

The worst thing I can do is go onto a messaging platform and teams and Slack and an email and a text and send that to you. The way I feel that might cause me to go. Oh, and so the least effective, the most junior way to do it is to spew it in some kind of written form. So resist. You find yourself typing an email. You're in a messaging platform you're typing it out, just resist and then, if you have to or you feel like you need to send email, read that five times. For anything that would elicit defensiveness on the part of the person I'm giving the feedback to and remove it. It's not going to help you. There are exceptions to this right, but generally those are rare, and so this is what it looks like.

Speaker 1:

Let me give you an example. Hey, mike, do you have some time to talk later today? So I'm direct messaging, I'm texting you, I'm typing a message in some platform, I'm whatever. And, mike, do you have some time later today to talk about? Uh, the meeting yesterday? I, I want to get your feedback and, if you're open to it, share some as well. And, by the way, when do I send that text? Tight feedback loop, that's the answer. Not a week later. Not in the moment, because I've got too much emotion after I've slept on it, but within a day, two or three, you'll know the right period, not a long time later. So the emotions faded a little bit, rationalities come into it, I've calmed down a little bit, pulse is slower. Right, I'm smiling and laughing, but I still feel passionate about this. This is. This is important to me to give it to you and to have this conversation. So I'm seeking the conversation.

Speaker 1:

Some of you are way uncomfortable with that. You're stunting your growth. You are absolutely putting a ceiling on yourself. You got to get over that. Go to whatever counselor, shrink coach, mastermind, whatever you need you, mentor. You got to get over that. It's going to negatively affect you in massive ways, personally and professionally. It needs to be an area of emphasis.

Speaker 1:

So some of you are way uncomfortable in providing the feedback. Everything I'm saying right now is making you tense up because you don't want to give it, you don't want to seek it. Others of you you're like oh yeah, this is the episode I've been waiting for because I love to dish it. No, you need help too, because you're on the other end of the spectrum. You suck at it too, just as much as the person. I don't mean that, I mean it with love, right? So no, it's not at either end of that of the spectrum, the continuum.

Speaker 1:

People who are like can't wait to give it. They're super comfortable, they lean in. They're like yeah, I'm from Boston, I'm from New York City, this is what we give feedback. Man, I can't wait. No, yeah, chill out, okay. And those of you that are like um, midwest, nice, minnesota, nice or wherever it is, and I, uh, this is like I can't. Okay, well, just get comfortable in your current position and just kind of stop being ambitious because you're not going to be able to advance and, by the way, you're going to massive issues with your kids, your spouses, your parents, whatever else, because this is just, I just can't go. They're not. I mean, okay, we got to lean into this.

Speaker 1:

Now, I'm not belittling any of that, I totally validate it all, but it's only with reps. It felt insanely uncomfortable the first time I walked into a gym. I don't know how to use any of these machines. I'm the weakest, weakest, smallest dude in the whole place and I have no clue what I'm doing. That's that, that's changed right. That's, I'm leaning into it. So if I'm going to get stronger at this, I've got to lean into the discomfort. Now, years later, I don't feel like that at all. Okay.

Speaker 1:

So feedback, so the way that you do that, hey, mike, lisa, john, barbara, whatever you mind, if you have some time later today, tomorrow, whatever, okay, and it's gotta be soon. Now I go into that conversation before I provide the feedback. I seek it and I offer some appreciative feedback. So here's how that sounds. Let me play it out for you. Hey, mike, I really appreciate you making some time to talk about the meeting yesterday. I've got some thoughts that are on my mind about it. I just wanted to start by saying how much I valued it. Appreciative Don't make it up, but be genuine. There's something valuable out of it, 95, 8% of the time. I just really appreciate that we had that event. I think that was a great meeting, whatever it is. And then you go into so thank you so much for that.

Speaker 1:

Are you open, mike? Lisa, are you open to some feedback about it as well? Yeah, for sure, always, not sometimes always ask for permission and if the person says no or hymns and haws, don't dig into it. Well, oh well, uh, uh, yeah, I. Well, you know what, I know. If, uh, if now's not a good time or whatever, no, no, russ, I I'd love to hear Okay, yeah, I just I wanted to. I wanted to make sure that you're open to it. Yeah, I am Great. What do you have?

Speaker 1:

Again, now I'm going to repeat the appreciative or dig and give another bullet point. I've written this out. I've typed it up, I've got it. I'm not reading that in the call or in the meeting, but I'm referencing it or in, if it's in person. I've got it on a, on a sheet of paper. I've got a couple of bullet points again not a script, but I'm I'm referencing it. And so, um, cause, I've thought through this and I've tightened it and it's my main point in just a few words. So, again, I just appreciatively, I thought the meeting was very valuable and here's why that, whatever and give me a little bit of that some some things that have been on my mind since then are, I really feel, mike, barbara, lisa, that, um, I'm really struggling with this part why we did that or what was meant by that.

Speaker 1:

And before you go deeper, it's valuable to ask a question. Can you help me with that? Can you walk me through that? Can you give me? I've just got some discomfort with it or I've got some confusion around it. Would you mind giving me a little bit of context about it? 95% of the time, the person should go oh yeah, absolutely, you haven't said anything. That's defensive. Uh, that's that's defensive or that's that would cause me to be defensive Just to get some discomfort. Oh really, russ, tell me about that. Well, just give me some.

Speaker 1:

You know, I, I, I was surprised. We spent three hours on that. I was surprised that we announced that change, or surprised we are doing that or it just I. That wasn't what I expected. And then they're going to start sharing. Let them go.

Speaker 1:

Well, the reason we did that was this, that and the other, and this is whatever. And here's what we were thinking. And what you're getting at is context, process, background. You're seeking it genuinely. Before you unload on whatever and you're not going to unload but before you share 60 to 70% of the time, what they say, the context, the process they walk you through, it's going to soften you completely. You're going to go oh, you were aware of that. You didn't know that it was going to cause that. You, you considered this thing. They're going to get there before you even say anything. Oh, lisa, really interesting, I didn't know that. You're going to feel your shoulders relax 60 to 70 percent of the time.

Speaker 1:

Other times they're not going to say anything that affects you in any way, but you're letting them say that, which is, but a lot of the time they're going to say something that you're go. Oh, that explains it, okay, and you're going to go, yeah, cause I wasn't sure about that and honestly, I felt like it was creating the wrong experience for our customers or that other department, or I thought it was a whatever yeah, and they're going to say, yeah, you know, we thought through that and you're going to go and you're done, it's solved. You know we thought through that and you're going to go and you're done, it's solved. Okay, that's really useful, thanks. I hope that whatever, whatever great conversation, you feel great about it.

Speaker 1:

So go into the conversation not with just arrows, or a better way of saying it is don't just go in with sentences that end in periods or exclamation marks. Go into the conversation with sentences that end with question or excuselamation marks. Go into the conversation with sentences that end with question mark or, excuse me, yeah, with exclamation, uh marks or periods. You want to go into it with sentences in question marks, curiosity, and then share your feedback. Yeah, I was just uh, yeah, this is, this is what, what, what bothered me, or this is what concerned me, and so I appreciate you listening to it. And here's what it is Emotion-free, you all Emotion-free.

Speaker 1:

Do not send that in an email, do not text it. Do not go to a messaging platform. Do not become the defender of everybody else on the team or that other person or whatever else. There's context you don't have. There's process you aren't aware of. There's background you aren't, you don't have. You just no one shared with you most of the time. So have curiosity.

Speaker 1:

So tight feedback loop. You're not waiting, you're going to it pretty quick. You're waiting till you have a lack of emotion. You're not waiting, you're going to it pretty quick. You're waiting till you have a lack of emotion. You're going in. And then the feedback loop again is seek, appreciative, constructive, validate. So I got you going. If I got you thinking about things. You all. This is the key to a competitive advantage around efficiency, speed to market.

Speaker 1:

So many of your organizations suck at this. So many of your organizations suck at this. So many of you are weak at this. You think you're good. Maybe some of you are so uncomfortable with it. You got to develop this skillset. It's huge. It leads to innovation. It leads to deeper teamwork. It leads to greater loyalty. It leads to greater alignment. It leads to insight that you're going to gain that. It's going to unlock so many things for you. A culture of feedback. A tight feedback loop is hugely important. If one doesn't exist in your department, in your organization, in your relationships, in your life, it's time to start working on it. That's what I got for you in this episode of the Lead in 30 podcast.

Speaker 2:

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Speaker 1:

Thanks, for listening to the Lead in 30 podcast with Russ Hill.