Lead In 30 Podcast

The Validation Trap: Where Do You Look to Determine Your Value?

• Russ Hill

Share episode

Some of you just want to be liked. Others of you are obsessed with the scoreboard. The crowd and the metrics shouldn't be your ultimate gauges of success or value. In this episode Lone Rock Leadership Cofounder Russ Hill explores where leaders seek validation and how this fundamental choice defines leadership effectiveness, sustainability, and ability to scale.

• First Leaders seek validation from the crowd, prioritizing harmony and being liked
• This approach creates pleasant environments but often fails to drive results
• Second Leaders seek validation from scoreboard metrics, authority, and status symbols
• While driving short-term results, this leadership style struggles with innovation and retention
• The most effective leaders seek validation first internally, staying consistent with their principles
• Trusted advisors who provide honest feedback form a second critical validation source
• External validation—whether from crowds or scoreboards—is ultimately unreliable
• Some people will unfairly judge you regardless of your actions or intentions
• If you don't have critics, you're likely not making enough impact
• Understanding your validation source requires honest self-assessment

Share this episode with a colleague, your team, or a friend. Tap on the share button and text the link.


--
Get weekly leadership tips delivered to your email inbox:
Subscribe to our leadership email newsletter
https://www.leadin30.com/newsletter

Connect with me on LinkedIn or to send me a DM:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/russleads/

Tap here to check out my first book, Decide to Lead, on Amazon. Thank you so much to the thousands of you who have already purchased it for yourself or your company!

--
About the podcast:
The Lead In 30 Podcast with Russ Hill is for leaders of teams who want to grow and accelerate their results. In each episode, Russ Hill shares what he's learned consulting executives. Subscribe to get two new episodes every week. To connect with Russ message him on LinkedIn!



Speaker 1:

If you lead to be liked or to win, you're playing the wrong game. What? Let's talk about it in this episode.

Speaker 2:

This is the Lead in 30 podcast with Russ Hill. You cannot be serious, strengthen your ability to lead in less than 30 minutes. You're listening to Lead in 30.

Speaker 1:

Where do you look for validation? What's your natural state? Where do you naturally gravitate to seek validation as a leader? We're talking business here, right? So in the organization that you lead on the team that you lead in the career that you're in, where do you look for validation from? Nobody's asked you that question recently, have they? Or like ever, but it's really interesting to think about and it really defines your leadership style. I want to dig into this and tell you what the research shows in this episode of the Lead in 30 podcast. Welcome into it. In less than 30 minutes, we give you a framework, a model, a question, a best practice, an example, a story, something for you to consider implementing in the way that you lead others.

Speaker 1:

My name is Russ Hill. I make my living coaching, consulting senior executive teams at some of the world's biggest companies. You can find out more about our firm. I'm one of the co-founders of it, one of the members of the team. I get to be the voice of an incredible group. You can find out more about what we do, both on the executive consulting side, as well as the leadership development off the shelf training of mid-level managers. You can find out more about that at lead in third. Actually, no, not lead in 30. Used to be leadin30.com. We changed it because the reason for it is we don't just have one course anymore, we've got four, and then we've got the consulting side, so lonerockio Lonerockio is the URL for Lonerock Leadership. I've talked recently about some of the new courses that we've launched. We are getting a ton of interest in what we call Adapt in 30. So the foundation of leadership development, that the core of what every manager needs, in our opinion, is Lead in 30. It's clarity alignment movement the first things I've got to do as a leader to create clarity alignment movement. So we teach that in a four week cohort experience you can certify people, hr folks, l and D people inside your company to train managers whether that's 10 managers in your organization or whether that's a 10,000, uh, we offer that at uh for lead in 30.

Speaker 1:

And then and so then you look at, well, what other skills do they need? And a lot of the training companies that are out there. In fact, a lot, of, a lot of the content or development that's out there is just 10,000 courses. It's like if you go to LinkedIn learning, what's the number? I can't remember. I think it's 17,000. Is that what it? I think that was the last count. 17,000 courses in LinkedIn learning. So you got some of these companies that are literally like paying for licenses for their employees to LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn and I think it's fabulous and I think they're amazing courses in LinkedIn learning, but I don't want to offer my manager 17,000 courses. Like which one.

Speaker 1:

Should I start with what's most important, what's core to the way that we lead? I want to share vocabulary. I want to talk about what really matters, how I'm going to be evaluated, what's going to scale, and so the answer isn't an all access pass. That's the worst thing you can give a manager. By the way, there's this thing called chat GPT now, where I can get all that. Anyway, I can just type in and say help me with this, and so what I need is a shared experience I have with other people inside my organization, with simple frameworks and model and vocabulary and all of that. So we've got core models that we implement and then there's follow up to it. So, anyway, adapt in 30 is one of the courses which is about managing through change and uncertainty and how do you lead a team through that, and there might just be a little bit of value to that in our current environment at the time that I'm recording this. So anyway, you can find out more about all that at uh see, see the, the three new courses that we've launched in just the last few months adapt in 30, decide in 30.

Speaker 1:

So many leaders, so many organizations struggle with decision making. And then power in 30, which is this decision, not just to take accountability, but to show up powerfully. How do you do that? What does that mean? Because the worst feeling you can ever have is powerless powerless in your job, powerless in an organization, powerless in a relationship. It's debilitating. It can leave you paralyzed and there's no growth. When you feel powerless, there's no movement, there's only surrender. Why would you do anything different? You're powerless, so just get out the white flag, just sit down and wave it. You're powerless to do anything. It's the most debilitating mindset you can have in any organization. So what do we want? We want a company, an organization, a department full of people who feel powerful. And I can't make you feel powerful. It's actually a choice. You make A choice to view yourself as powerful in a relationship, in your career, in your job, in your organization. Anyway, you can find out all about that at lonerockio. Okay, let's talk about validation.

Speaker 1:

So, speaking of lead in 30, a lot of you listen, you've been through the course or you at least know these concepts that we teach. I'm going to do a quick refresher because there's a decent amount of you all over the world that listen or that maybe you're finding this episode out of the blue and you need a little bit of a background on this. In Lead in 30, our kind of foundational leadership training course, we teach the first, second and third leader. These are leadership styles. There are lots of profiles, patterns, assessments, all that out there. Um, and you can, just, you know, throw a rock and you'll hit one um in in lead in 30, we, we, we break it down into just three basic styles. The one, the first one, is the first leader. I'm going to spend 30 seconds on this and then and then we're going to get to validation.

Speaker 1:

So the first leader seeks consensus. They're super slow to make decisions. They love meetings, they love dialogue, they love making everyone feel important. Everybody on the team feels heard. Engagement scores are off the charts. The problem with the first leader is we don't really execute well because everything's a priority. There's really no vision or clarity. We're just kind of here to meet and talk and discuss and everyone feels great. And so people who are driven struggle when they're led by the first leader. Organizations that demand performance struggle to promote or retain or hold on to first leaders because they don't place a lot of value in them. And yet some companies reward the first leader and what you tend to see in their metrics is not a lot of growth year over year or quarter over quarter, because they're led by first leaders.

Speaker 1:

Second leaders lean into compliance. What they want is for you to just execute like we don't really need another meeting. I mean, I've already given you the direction, right, you know what to do, just go execute on it. And so the value of the second leader is you tend to get incredible performance, especially out of the gate. When you put a second leader into a new position or a new department. You promote them, you hire them from you know, from outside the organization. They're just really good at execution.

Speaker 1:

The struggle with the second leader is involvement, alignment, just buy-in, and there's just tends to be silos, there tends to be tension, there tends to be people rolling their eyes and you log into their virtual meeting. There's really no need to have your camera on or unmute yourself, because why would you speak up or raise your hand. The second leader came into the meeting already knowing the answer it's whatever he or she says. So that's the struggle with the second leader. They've got great performance out of the gate. But in today's day and age, when employees have a choice of where they want to work, they opt not to work for the second leader, unless they're one of the favorite children of the second leader. Then they might stick around.

Speaker 1:

So what we teach in Leader Third is a different approach, what we call the third leader. I'll get more into that in a moment, but what I want to talk about in this episode I'm just using those as kind of handles for this. So just think about. The first leader is somebody that seeks consensus. They care a ton about what the yeah, the second leader is compliance, and then the third leader seeks ownership or people to buy in. So where do they seek validation? So let's tie this into you Some of you seek validation from the crowd.

Speaker 1:

That's what someone who leans into consensus the first leader, somebody that leans into a lot of discussion doesn't really move the organization forward. Where they are seeking validation. Think about this is super interesting. This might be you, this might be your organization kind of the overwhelming culture this might be the boss you work for, somebody else or somebody on your team, like this is totally them. They seek, because we all seek validation some more than others. Some of us have a big time problem with this. Others of us, um, don't we? You know we seek it, but we kind of manage it well. So we'll get into outcomes and and some and some thoughts about what, what, um, what my thoughts are about that in a moment. But but, um, hang on one second, while I'm recording this in real time, I'm making sure that, okay, got it All right. So and uh, so the.

Speaker 1:

So the first leader, the person that seeks consensus. They're seeking validation from the crowd, they're looking for approval from the team. They really highly value being liked. Right, they want to be liked, they want to create harmony. Oh my gosh, that matters so much. The smiles on the cameras, on Zoom or Teams, the, everyone just getting along. The group satisfaction is like, so rewarding to them. We might be missing the number, we might not be innovating, we might not be driving it forward, we might be losing market share, whatever it might be. Missing the number, we might not be innovating, we might not be driving it forward, we might be losing market share, whatever it might be, but wow, I'm liked and wow, the team gets along and this is just a really good place. That's a problem in a competitive marketplace.

Speaker 1:

The second leader, the one that seeks compliance where do they seek validation? Think about that for a second. So the first leader, this first example, they're seeking validation Again, some of you wanting to be liked seeking validation from the crowd. Where does the kind of the command and control, the compliance executive or manager, where are they seeking validation? They are seeking validation from the scoreboard. They want validation from the results. They actually like authority recognition. It's really important to them to be viewed as senior. As you know, that whole phrase like kiss the ring, a total second leader, right Status matters a ton to them. They anchor their identity and outcomes, the revenue, the speed, the wins. That's what the second leader just seeks validation from. We're winning on the scoreboard, we're crushing it out there. I'm in a good position. This organization recognizes my genius or whatever it might be, or my hard work or my degree. I mean, I was interesting. We were at college. Just a quick aside on this. We were at college graduation right Recently, for I did an episode like two episodes ago on this um, three members of our family you know, our son and then two in-laws or future in-laws, uh, for our kids, uh walked the stage at college graduation so exciting.

Speaker 1:

And you look at that scene and the robes, the robes that they wear, and you just look at some and I don't mean any discredit to anybody, but the just the status. And you know, in our program at the university it printed, you know what, what do these robes mean? And just the more things on there and it said pay attention to their sleeves and whatever that's status that's. Look at, I mean, why the crap are we wearing as a professor, wearing a robe? Why? Why can they not just show up in nice business attire, like, can you imagine the college graduation scene in a modern day company? Like the CEO walks in with the robe and it's interesting about courtrooms, right, the judge has to differentiate, separate him or herself. The robe is insane. It's like, are you kidding me? I was sitting there.

Speaker 1:

I'm like this is like, how outdated is this? And then you know, the doctorate. What do they call that the um, the, the, the thing that they put over your show and I'm offending some of you. Some of you are like your academics or you're into that and you're like Russ, you don't get it. The history and this and the other. Okay, maybe I'm wrong on this. I I leave total space for me being off my rocker on it, but please help me. Please help me understand that. That's not seeking validation through status, because why, if I have a doctorate, if I have a PhD, why do I need you to know that? Why is that important on the stage at a college graduation? And so we don't do?

Speaker 1:

There's nothing similar in business. As far as a tire, now you could say, yeah, some companies, you've got this parking space, this, that or the other, the companies that the more, the more outward evidences we have of status in our organization, the more screwed up that culture is in the modern day period. Challenge me on it, bring it, I'm so interested in hearing you say it. The assigned spots for the executive team Are you nuts? The, the, the. Well, they're up on the 17th floor of the building and the big suite like no, I mean. So anyway, you can disagree with me, I just know what I see in the workplace. I make my living traveling from organization to organization All these different companies and I'm just telling you there are some parallels between how much the executives seek validation of their status or recognition of their authority, and the culture and the innovation and the engagement and the ideation that's happening in that organization period.

Speaker 1:

Anyway, okay, just had to get that out. Ah, it feels better to invent it about that. I just sat there at the college graduation like this is it's insane in 2025, at the time I'm recording this, that we still do that. In my opinion, you could now. I'm all about calling out the people getting their doctorate at this commencement, like they deserve a round of applause. Like I'm going to stand and applaud for them. Like wow, that was a lot of hard work. I'm not sure how much it's going to help you in your career, unless you're going into academics or obviously certain degrees like you know a science and whatever else. Like that's awesome. But I know very few people who the success that they have comes through the academic credentials. Just now, it's a. It's a ticket to some games again. I want the doctor attending me to have the PhD, right, I mean, obviously they would be a doctor. I want people to be educated. Anyway, I need to get off this, okay.

Speaker 1:

So the second leader seeks validation from the scoreboard. They look, look, I'm accomplishing the metrics. You should love me. So is that flawed? At the end of the day, it's flawed, it's part of it. But so what's the answer, russ, where? What do you like? We'll make what. What should we be doing? Okay, I'll make the point, the yes, the results matter, yes, the harmony on the team, and not even let's not use the T, the word uh, harmony. Let's use the word involvement, let's use the word participation, let's use the word ownership on the team. There, I really like the word involvement. If they feel involved in helping accomplish this, that they've got a role in it, that their opinion matters, that their contribution, their effort matters, it's critically important. That's important If we're paying attention to the results and they matter. Yeah, they matter. We've got to deliver on this quarter. We've got to deliver on the metrics that the shareholders, the investors, the owners, the members want or need.

Speaker 1:

But deeper, deeper down, what I would suggest to you? That the most effective leaders, that in their mind, they have defined certain principles that matter tremendously and they do not gain validation simply from the scoreboard, because you can hit the metrics and still be an enormously flawed leader who can't scale and get buy-in and develop leaders and set us up for long-term success. So instead, you've defined some principles. They are core to you. You want to lead this way because it is true to who you're trying to be and you seek validation from this is going to sound kind of soft to some of you and some of you are going to need to think about this and you're welcome. I want you thinking about it. Your validation comes from a couple of different places. In the most effective, grounded, long-term, scalable leaders Number one internal period, like that's such a critical part. I have lived long enough. It almost makes me emotional, you all.

Speaker 1:

Because what the the, the price I paid to gain this wisdom wasn't, it wasn't cheap, it, it, it, it required, um, some wounds, some, some battle scars. Some of the wisdom I've gained in life and some of you listening have gained this too is that no matter what I do, no matter how I show up, no matter what, what, no matter my intent, some of you, some of the people in the organization, are going to unfairly judge me. They're going to hold opinions that aren't true aren't reflective in who I really am. Others are going to define me by my weakest moment. Yep, I did show up that way that one day. Or yep, I used to be that way 15 years ago. Or yep, I slipped and did that once, twice, maybe a few times, but that's not true to who I'm trying to be. That's not that. That's not, um consistent with the experiences I've been creating on a regular basis, um in in in the recent past. That's not true to who I you keep following me.

Speaker 1:

They're gonna be people that, in fact, you're not. You're not doing a good job. If you don't have critics. It means you're, means you're invisible. Nobody's noticing you. It's when you actually start making a difference that you start having some critics people and there is literally nothing. You know this, right. There's literally nothing you can do that will convince them otherwise. You're. You know people like this in your life, right. There's literally nothing you can do that will convince them otherwise. You're. You know people like this in your life, right? Doesn't matter what the evidence is.

Speaker 1:

The truth is they have defined you or they've defined someone in your position, or someone with your skin color, or with your gender, or with your area, that is a zip code or in whatever it is. They've defined you a certain way and it doesn't matter what you do. That's how they're so. So we, we understand that. So the the validation needs to first come from internally. What they're saying is not true. I or, or what, what, what's going in that direction? It's I know that I'm showing up this way. What's going in that direction? It's I know that I'm showing up this way.

Speaker 1:

You have to first seek validation from the core inside you, and what I do is what I'm doing, consistent with who I'm trying to be, with what I'm saying. So the most effective leaders who scale, they first seek validation from their internal voice source, whatever. Okay, where's the second place they go? The second place they go is trusted advisors. It's not the crowd overall, it's the people that will give them honest feedback coming from a place of good intention. Them, honest feedback coming from a place of good intention, not the clones, not the echo chamber, not the critics, not the naysayers. The people who have experience, the people that know what we're trying to accomplish, the people that are interested in helping me see what I need to see. The people that are interested in helping me see what I need to see. So a trusted advisor, not the crowd, not just a scoreboard, but I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm seeking those people out, this group of whatever you want to call that group. I'm getting their feedback.

Speaker 1:

Are some of them my employees? Absolutely. Are some of them my bosses? Absolutely. Are some of them my bosses? Absolutely. Are some of them my peers? Yes, are some of them related to me? Yes, are some of them past colleagues? Yes, some of them are neighbors. Some of them are at my church, some of them are wherever they might be. Now I'll tell you that.

Speaker 1:

The third category. There is a third category, but it won't apply to all of you, or maybe you've got a different word that I would use, and that's God, a higher power, validation from that, like I'm living, consistent with whatever. And this kind of goes back to you know your principles. But I'm seeking validation, meaning like this is consistent with what I think. That higher power, the universe, the whatever or whatever that thing is, that, the greater good that's out there, um, that that's important to me, that that there, his, it's, however you define it, perspective on what I'm doing. I'd throw that out. Obviously, we're not going to teach that in business I would never say that in a client meeting, but in a little casual podcast I can say that so, and that may or may not apply to you, but those first two really do. Internally, does that make sense?

Speaker 1:

So in this episode, what I really wanted to do was to get you thinking about where you seek validation from whose opinion really matters, like how do you kind of gain your self-worth? Have you thought about that recently? Have you ever stepped back and analyzed that? So hopefully, during the course of this episode you thought, okay, maybe I am leaning a little too much into being liked. Maybe harmony is a little too important to me. Maybe the scoreboard or the results or authority, the robe at graduation, the status, the parking spot maybe that matters a little too much to me.

Speaker 1:

And because they're, I'm not, I don't have time this episode to get into the why those things are flawed. But people will turn on you so fast, that board member that you're placing your validation on and that feels good, right, I'm not saying don't, we should all like to be liked. There's no way to divorce yourself or separate yourself from that. That feels good, but it's not what's going to sustain me and it's not what I'm ultimately seeking. So if that, if I get that, that's cool. If the board member thinks I'm doing a good job, that's awesome. I want to keep them happy.

Speaker 1:

But that board member or that stockholder or that executive or that customer or that whomever, if they that opinion isn't what really I'm looking for. It's internal. Am I doing what I know? I mean, I've been. There's so many stories I could tell the weather, veins and meetings that are seeking validation from the room, the people just so many examples of all of this. And so, ultimately, what I would propose to you is internal, internal validation that you're exercising consistently with what you're trying to do and what you know to be right. The core of and you could use lots of different words to describe that and then the second place is a group of trusted advisors. Maybe there's a board member in there, maybe there is a. You just you define that. You get the point. Where do you seek validation from and what adjustments do you need to make? That's what I wanted you to be thinking about in this episode of the lead in 30 podcast share this episode with a colleague, your team or a friend.

Speaker 2:

Tap on the share button and text the link. Thanks for listening to the lead in 30 podcast with russ hill.