Lead In 30 Podcast

Who You Spend Time With: Evaluating Your 1st and 2nd Connections

• Russ Hill

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Careers don’t stall because people forget how to work hard; they stall because the room stops changing. We dig into a simple, disruptive idea: individuals matter more than institutions. When you choose who you spend time with as carefully as you choose your company, your trajectory shifts—faster ideas, bolder bets, better results.

Lone Rock Leadership co-founder Russ Hill walks through two practical circles that shape outcomes. Your first-degree connections—bosses, teammates, key clients—determine your daily pace and mindset. If they’re maintainers, your thinking flattens. If they’re builders and developers, your courage and creativity rise. Then there’s the overlooked engine: second-degree connections, the friends-of-friends who inject novelty without chaos. Most real opportunities come from this layer, and we get tactical about how to activate it: rotate rising operators into executive meetings, design invite-only dinners that cross functions and companies, and set a steady cadence of breakfasts, calls, and site visits that sharpen judgment.

Ready to trade stagnation for momentum? Listen now, then share with one person who pushes you to grow. If this resonated, subscribe, leave a quick review, and pass it along to your team so you can build better rooms together.

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https://www.lonerock.io

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About the podcast:
The Lead In 30 Podcast with Russ Hill is for leaders of teams who want to grow and accelerate their results. In each episode, Russ Hill shares what he's learned consulting executives. Subscribe to get two new episodes every week. To connect with Russ message him on LinkedIn!



SPEAKER_01:

The people you choose to spend time with. Opportunity stems from thinking more about individuals than institutions. This episode of the pod, all about how to protect yourself from becoming stagnant, and it has a lot to do with the people you choose to be around.

SPEAKER_03:

This is the Lead in 30 podcast with Russ Hill. You cannot be serious. Strengthen your ability to lead in less than 30 minutes.

SPEAKER_02:

It's time to end the confusion. Get the new book by the founders of Lone Rock Leadership. See why executives at Lockheed Martin, Signa, Teva, Chili's, and so many other companies are praising Deliver. Why some leaders get results and most don't. You can download the first chapter right now and request two free copies shipped to you at LoneRock.io.

SPEAKER_01:

Tom Smith is one of the co-authors of the New York Times bestseller, The Oz Principal. Greg Ulmer is the president of Lockheed Martin Aeronautics. They might build all the fighter jets and all the aircraft for Lockheed Martin. Chris Fox is the head of U.S. commercial for Teva Pharmaceuticals. Dr. Tony Bridwell was the chief people officer at Chili's Restaurant. Eva Borden is the chief product officer at Cygna. John Rambo is the head of integrated mission systems at L3 Harris. Tony Ventry is the human resources officer, the the uh chief human resources officer for Verative, Rodney Leonard at Kenview. I'm I'm just looking through you all the first few pages of our book, Deliver, our brand new book. Those are the folks who wrote the forward, the uh the first part of our book. Those are some of the names of the people who you'll read about. And there you'll actually not read about them. You'll read stuff from them. They wrote the forward for our new book, Deliver, why some leaders get results and most don't. Check that out on Amazon or go to Lone Rock.io to find out more about our brand new book. So excited about it. Um we're still in the the initial launch stage of it, the first uh several months of putting that book out. It absolutely will transform the way you lead, and I highly recommend it for people who are in leadership positions inside your organization. Welcome into the Lead in 30 podcast. In less than 30 minutes, we'll give you a framework, a best practice, a model, an example, something for you to think about integrating into the way that you lead others. My name is Russ Hill, and I uh spend my I spend my time consulting with uh senior executive teams of some of the world's biggest companies. I'm one of the co-founders of Lone Rock Leadership. We're an executive consulting firm as well as a leadership training company, Lone Rock Leadership at Lone Rock.io. Okay, in this episode, you all, I've been thinking a lot about the people that we spend time with. And I'm just gonna set this up by telling you several stories, okay? And um, and I I just am absolutely convinced that we need to be extremely strategic in who we're spending time with. And I I'm gonna present this network um idea to you because the workplace is becoming the market out there that we all work in, all the various industries we're a part of, the real value is being created by the organizations and the executives that are thinking less in a bureaucratic way, less top-down org chart, you know, vertical structure to an organization, and those that are structuring organizations, departments, teams, and thinking more in a network structure. It's more about the horizontal connections between the organization and the teams. Those that are the the organizations that are structured more vertically are struggling more in the current environment where change is so accelerated. And and those that are that are structured more or thinking more, their mindset is more like networked individuals. One organization we work with really leans into talking about it as end-to-end leadership. And um, those that are thinking more like that are just moving faster. Individuals are, teams are, and organizations are. And so I want you to think about this from that standpoint as well as how um how the group that you surround yourself with, and I'm not just talking about employees or peers, I'm talking about just your connections, how that has a lot to do with whether or not you're stagnating or whether you are growing tremendously. The value that you're bringing and creating in the marketplace has a tremendous amount to do with how much time and energy and conversation you spend with your first degree connections, your immediate circle, and how much time you spend with your second degree. So I want you thinking about both those groups. I'll explain more for those of you that are confused, go, what the crap are you saying, Russ? I'll explain, I'll walk you through it, okay? I think this is a big deal. It's a really big deal. And I want you to think about it because a lot of you are are not suffering, that's the wrong word, but you would benefit from making some adjustments to the people that you're talking to and spending a lot of time with. And that has lots of different implications and different choices, decisions that you're gonna make in this year, in the coming months, okay? So let me give you let me give you a couple of stories to set this up. Number one, let me go back to my media days. So I worked for when when, and I don't want to get too specific. I'm certainly not going to call out names because I don't want to offend anybody and I don't want to say anything that's not not truly representative of the way that I think, of my opinions. Um everyone you work for, everyone you work with has different value propositions, right? They have strengths and weaknesses, they have certain skills and abilities, their their growth curve looks different. Some of you are working for people that are extremely stagnant. They are absolutely flatlined in in and they've maxed out, they've hit their their temporary ceiling in their ideation and the ideas they come up with, in their strategic thinking, in their um growth mindset, in all these different areas. And some of you are surrounded by and work for individuals that are crazy valuable in how intense they're approaching opportunity, at how much they um think through and brainstorm and come up with new ideas and how much risk tolerance they have, and and your next decade, your next five years is heavily, heavily influenced by the the type of person, the type of people you're around. And so there's no more important decision than the individuals you surround yourself with, more so than the institution that you work at. Okay, I d you're you're thinking through what I just said, right? Individuals versus institution. And the shift that is I want you thinking about, and those of you that are younger in the workforce, you're in your early 20s, mid-20s that are listening. And by the way, kudos to you for listening to a podcast like this, rather than doing other things that a lot of people your age would be doing and thinking about growth and opportunities and leadership and all of that. That's awesome. Those of you that are younger in your career um experience, this is gonna be um more natural for you because this is the world you've been raised in. Those of you that are more advanced in your career, this is gonna be very different than the mindset you had when you initially went to get your first jobs. Because institutions matter a ton more then than they do now, right? I talk about this a lot. It's on my mind a lot because the market is not stagnant. And I think if you think, if your mindset becomes stagnant, you're still thinking about the market, you're still thinking about opportunities, you're still thinking about structure the way you've always thought about it, if you're more veteran in your career, then you're you're you're being held back. You're slow, your progress is slowing, and you're becoming less valuable to the organization, and you're you're less attractive to people who are younger in their careers because you're not innovative in your thinking. So if you can combine the wealth of experience you've gained through life experience, the wealth of wisdom you've unlocked, with thinking differently, oh my gosh, then your value in the marketplace is beyond anybody. You with me? Okay, so when I was in the media business, one of the leaders that I worked with, I if I go back and I look at the executives that I worked with, whether I reported into them directly or they were a level or two above me on the org chart, there there were clearly some that that were more impactful than others, right? I mean, duh. And and so if I think about some of them, one of the first executives I was associated with was an incredible mentor of people. She thought a ton about how you develop people and how you and who you who you put on the team and the effort that you're putting into uh developing yourself as a leader. And she was insanely valuable to me. A lot of the other people on on the the leadership teams that I was a part of or that I reported into were just maintainers. They weren't notable. They they they did their they they were specialists in a in a in a given role and and they were pretty flatlined. They they they didn't come to meetings with a lot of ideas, they didn't, they they they were good people, they are good people, but they didn't significantly impact my trajectory or me much or the organization much. And I I can see that in the rear view mirror, but it was pretty obvious in the moment too. Even as a 25-year-old lower level leader, I could see that. Like, oh, that person, they they they they're bringing a significant amount of contribution to our meetings or or the conversation where this person is more kind of sorry, but I don't know another term, kind of a dud. Like they're there and they're doing their job okay and they're a good person, but they're not bringing a lot. Now, I'm not gonna get into this in this episode too much, but a lot of that has to do, my belief is why does somebody come, why is somebody more of a dud and this person's more valuable? A ton of it has to do with what you consume. Period. Just a ton of it has to do with how much you're thinking, what your what ideas you're going to, what how much your your energy you're putting into consultants and coaches and conferences and and consuming content and thinking through things and ideating, and others are just kind of showing up and they're just going through the motions. And they're more interested in other things in life than professional opportunity or growing themselves or whatever else. And that's fine, but they're not they're moving at a different speed than the others. You with me? Okay, so so one of the leaders I worked with, great developer of talent. Another executive I worked with was just full of ideation and and brainstorming and had tons of energy and and fun, and you laughed a lot, and and there was just a ton of energy around him. And then one of the last executives I worked with in the media business just I called him a cutter, you know, had dreams at night about how they were how this person was gonna slice the the PL and save our way to bigger margins. So I worked around growth-minded people and more kind of cut-minded people, or slicing and dicing and and uh and just really um driving efficiency through reduction. Those individuals who I was working for and with had a significant impact on how much I grew, how much I was being challenged, how how it just a tremendous impact on me. And so the the person that I uh kind of called the cutter or that dreamt that way, I left quickly when he assumed um a position of considerable influence in our organization. I I could see the writing on the wall, I could see what was gonna happen over the next five years with him in that role. Great person, incredible human being, awesome, but not a great leader. And so why am I and let me give you another example? So I left. I left largely because I it was this it was the same institution, but the individuals around me changed dramatically, and so the the my trajectory changed as a result. You with me? Okay, so I'm I want you thinking of individuals versus institutions. Then when I interviewed, when when now one of my business partners, then a good friend of mine, just you know, we didn't work together back then. He's still a good friend of mine now, but he's a business partner too. Um, but back then he was just a friend of mine, and he he he talked me into um flying out to San Diego and interviewing with a consulting firm. And um, it was not something that I saw in my future, it was not something I was interested in, but I just thought, you know what? Um you only live once. Um I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go try this out. So I flew in and I did this. Uh there's no term that better describes it than an audition. It was not an interview, you all. This company did not do job interviews, they did auditions. So they literally, literally put me on a stage in one of the founders' homes. Yeah, he had a stage in his home and um a massive place, right? And uh, and so I get on the stage and they give me 10 minutes to talk about this topic, and they're watching me as if I'm delivering like a keynote address or in front of a group of executives, and I get two minutes of maybe a minute and a half of content out of my mouth. And I'm I'm look, I've spent almost 20 years in the media business. I'm very comfortable in front of audiences, I'm skilled at it, yeah, communication, all that sort of thing. So I'm coming in with a ton of confidence. And I've had executive positions in the media company. Anyway, I came in with confidence and they destroyed me. They just absolutely destroyed me. They bruised my ego. They um they just gave me a ton of constructive feedback, and I was not used to it. And and and as I walked out of the room and they told me, hey, Russ, thanks for coming by. I think I spent maybe a half an hour total with them, and and and I left this uh this big house of one of the co-founders. They said, you know, stay in the San Diego area. We'll let you know in the next few hours if we're gonna extend an opportunity to you, and we want to meet with you face to face to um to talk about that opportunity, if in fact we extend something to you. And as I left the the uh house, I was both offended and um exhilarated. Both offended and excited. Because it wasn't the institution that I was interested in. I thought about the individuals in the room and I thought, wow, I haven't been around a group. Most people, when they see me on a stage or they see me interacting, give me compliments. They, wow, Rush, you're really good at speaking. Wow, Rush, you whatever, whatever. I can't believe you don't get nervous, yeah, whatever they say. They're pretty nice. The folks that talk to me. And and and and yet this group, they were they they were kind, well, not really, but but I mean they were polite. That's the better term. They were polite but intense and very lots of constructive feedback. They spim they pointed out a ton of things that I could have and potentially should have done differently to be more effective. Very, very detail oriented. And I so as I left, I thought, I think they can actually make me better. I think I just spent I just walked into a room of people who are incredibly well connected in industry and who see uh ways that I could be better, and if I actually let my defensive mechanisms and my ego subside a little bit, they they're probably right about not everything am I going to implement that they suggested. I don't think there's value in everything, but there's probably value or w it's worth considering 60%, 70%, 80% of what they're what they're suggesting, at least considering. And so being around those individuals became extremely interesting to me. And so they called and I went and I met um the CEO of the organization, and we we negotiated um before I got on the plane to leave, um, what I thought would be a good opportunity. Then I flew home to talk to my wife and my family about it before I gave them a final decision one way or the other. And um, but it was the individuals I would have access to. Now, let me tell you another quick example. In the line of work that I am in, and by the way, that that consulting firm, that opportunity led to this, right? Because now I'm in the room with because I and at the moment I was a junior member of our consulting firm, and so I didn't get to speak in the room at these various organizations, and then over time, not not days, not months, but years, um my role um changed, and now I was in the front of the room, and and then it ultimately, you know, I before I left that firm, they offered me chief strategy officer. I was gonna be number two at the firm deciding, really directing our strategy. So how did that work? And there's there's lots to it, but but one of the opportunities that was most the the the thing that was most significant, there were two there were actually two aspects. What that opportunity gave me was access to our client base, senior executives at the world's biggest companies. I tell stories about it all the time on this, on this podcast, whether it's Walmart or Amazon or General Motors or Hormel or Lockheed Martin or Cigna or restaurant chains or healthcare companies or hospital systems or insurance, whatever it is. It gave me access to the highest level of those organizations, whether it was the C-suite or business units or particular departments, just people who were on the move at these organizations, right? It also gave me access to really smart people in our firm. So it was the client base and it was the internal team that I was interacting with and and and that was incredibly valuable. So these became really my first degree. Think about it like LinkedIn. I don't know how many of you spend time on LinkedIn, but on LinkedIn, Reid Hoffman, when he created the the the platform, he created it based on connections. First degree connections on LinkedIn are people that you're immediately connected to. You've said them a connection request. You most likely have worked together, met each other somewhere. You're connected. And then you have second degree connections, which are the people who uh uh who you know, the people who your first degree connections know. So in other words, I meet you and I connect with you on LinkedIn. All the people you work with and interact with are now my second degree connections. I've never met them necessarily. Maybe I have, but uh, but I don't work in close proximity to them. I'm not interacting with them a lot. So they're my second degree. Do you get that? Okay, here's one of the other things I want you to think about. Your first degree connections. So the the the clients that I gained access to working at that firm, my coworkers, they really became my first degree connections. That group brings you an enormous amount of value. It can. Or it can they can mostly be duds and then you're not getting much value. So I the first thing I want you to think about one of the things I want you to think about in this podcast episode listening to it is the value of your first degree connections. Who you're working for who is on the team that you're a member of who are the clients that you serve who are the partners and vendors you're spending time with who what is that group? Who's in there? How valuable is that group? Now I don't mean are they good human beings or not? That has nothing well that has something to do with it if they're not not good human beings, which some of you have first degree connections like yeah I got people in this group that are jerks my boss or whatever. These are people that are duds. Okay well you really need to examine that because that's having a an enormous impact on your growth potential your mindset your emotional mental spiritual even physical health right your first degree connections are you overvaluing the institution and under indexing on the individuals you well like you got to think about that like well but I work at this organization and I've worked here for 10 years or five or 50 and and so the institution well yeah but you're surrounded by duds or you're surrounded by people that aren't growing that much and they aren't growth they don't have a growth mindset and they're not ideating and they're not innovating and they they don't have urgency and they're they're pretty comfortable with status quo is that so I want you looking at your first degree then I want you looking at your second degree connections and let me let me and and and one of the things that I'm going to tell you is that if you only spend time if you limit your time mostly to your first degree connections you're missing out on growth opportunity. A lot of the opportunity in life comes from interacting with the second degree connections. Let me let me explain what I mean by that. Okay it's been remarkable how valuable it has been for some of and by the way you all my voice is you might hear it cracking a little bit it's a little bit weak I was at a I was at a college basketball game um two nights ago where I screamed a ton and uh it was an intense environment and I am not one of those fans that goes and watches like I'm watching a chess match. I'm on my feet. I believe that the people who are on the court in this case uh that the crowd is there to boost the performance of their team call me crazy but yeah I'm one of those people I don't yell uh like I I'm not I'm not interacting with the opposing team's fans if I'm in a venue like that not about that I'm just cheering on and reacting I'm on my feet I'm making noise I'm trying to impact the outcome I am fully into what I'm in what with the environment I'm in. And so some of you are different but that's that that's how I am as a fan. I love sporting events. I love watching athletes achieve their potential I love competition I love coaching I love um game plans I love all of it I love the human dynamics of it and so um and I believe experiences are incredibly important and the older I get the more that I am investing money less in things and more in experiences which is a whole nother podcast episode I just have become absolutely convinced that as a dad in my family with my kids getting older that the experiences the experiences matter more than the possessions or the things and so I'm allocating more money towards experiences. Yeah I'm gonna pay that much to have good seats at that game. Yep I'm gonna do it because that experience is something that those kids are never going to forget that moment when we were together as a family at that thing and we were like I'm just a believer in it. And I I I think that I anyway that's a whole nother episode so my that's a long way of saying my voice is a little scratchy and weak. So I if you noticed okay so one of the things that I've seen remarkable value of from is when executive teams whether they're leading a business unit or they are the C-suite of the entire enterprise when when that executive team pulls in what I would call but just for sake of certain terms in this podcast second connections into their meetings. Because they're not only you if if you have the same group of eight to ten managers executives leaders in that room over and over and over again you're going to stagnate that's why we move people in and out of teams that's one of the reasons you're getting underperformers out but you're also moving people around because it's there's new ideas that come from that. So you don't want the same exec I I could tell you clients we work with where the executive team has pretty much been the same group of six, eight, twelve people in the room for the last three to five or even in some cases eight to ten years, largely eight 80% of the teams have been the same. Those companies by and large are stagnating it's just the way it is by the way the individuals in the room you stagnate when that happens and and so we're uh I find myself coaching or or suggesting to many of our clients on the on the executive consulting side saying pull in some of the folks rotate them so if you've got an executive meeting of 10 people why aren't you pulling in two to three of the high performers or high potential or just people with really uh interesting ideas from that next layer down and incorporating them into your meeting. So much good comes from that. But the principle really is tapping into your second degree connections so there are lots of ideas that that we could get into tactical ideas for you to think about but I'm caught on how to implement this and and so for me as a as a one of the owners of our firm and we are in a total growth mode our 20 to our 2025 compared to our 2024 it was remarkably different. Our growth plan as a firm both on the training side the leadership training side as well as the executive consulting side is in just incredible growth in 26 and 27. We want to impact more individuals more organizations in more profound ways. So how do we serve our clients better we've got to get better at that got to get better at it and we're bringing lots of value and we got to get better at it. So we're thinking about it and we got things in the works and then we got to reach more organizations and more leaders because we have unlocked some things that provide tremendous value. That's one of the reasons why I start these episodes right now talking about our new book. The new book is one of those things. I mean there's lots of different things but 380 pages of wisdom. Now we aren't the smartest people ever created but we work with a lot of smart people in smart organizations you cannot do that and not gain some wisdom. You learn what works and what doesn't so then you write it down you put it in simple models and you put it out in the marketplace. Our courses do that too and so how do we gain value though? We gain value from those second degree connections. So when I'm when we're inviting for instance we're we're doing this executive summit with L and D and HR leaders again. You know we do it twice a year for we limit it to 40 people it's invite only and we we our next one's in Scottsdale in a few weeks and these are second degree connections these are mostly we've got a few first degree connections in the room but these are a lot of folks we haven't interacted with before either that they're at organizations that we haven't done business with or they're they're at different spots on the org chart than we typically interact with whatever it is and we benefit tremendously from being in the room with those folks they give us ideas they give us they they they they say things that we go wow that's really interesting we ought to think about that because of who they're connected to and and the same thing happens for them. They leave going oh that's not a group I normally have interacted with I met people from different organizations I met people from Lone Rock leadership maybe I haven't interacted with them and wow I'm leaving with some ideas some thoughts some some things to consider and so my main point in this episode of the pod is to get you thinking about what the quality of your first two things really I want you thinking about the quality of your first degree connections the group that you spend time with. And if that group is kind of a dud or if they're stagnating, I need you to think about any changes you could enact in that group maybe you're in charge of hiring, firing, moving around, change the group. Maybe you're a member of the team and you don't choose who's in the group then you need to think about whether or not you want to stay a part of that group whether or not you need to make some moves. Now you can stay a part of that group but expand your first degree connections outside of work or you know by networking or tapping into different conferences or people in your your network and and and I'm telling you you've got to be more proactive in this space you all you're you you cannot limit your interaction you've got to get to more breakfast you've got to get to more lunches you've got to get to more conferences you've got to to to have dinners you've got to get on a plane and go fly out and meet with that group you've got to organize some events whether it's eight to ten or forty people in the room you've got to do that externally who are you spending time with and if if that group is fairly stagnant meaning they're not growing they're not bringing a lot of new ideas to it either change out of the organization change out of that leadership team move vertically or excuse me horizontally in the organization or just expand outside expand who you're spending time with outside. Does that make sense? So I want you really thinking about your first degree connections and I want you thinking about those second degree connections people who know who you know and then saying to them hey let's go to one of the greatest things we did as a firm was we were having an event with first degree connections so we we we rented uh you know basically a mansion a huge Airbnb with I don't know 12 bedrooms they were all master suites an incredible place you know massive up on the mountainside and we rented this place out we invited some first degree connections probably 10 of them 12 of them to them and then we asked those people who do you know that should be there as well several of the people that were invited as quote unquote second degree connections now work with us. We met them in the room we're like whoa this person has a ton of wisdom they've got experience in a space that we need it they've got they've got ideas they've got connections they've got know-how it it and and that comes from tapping into those second degree connections so you can do that as an individual by just who you're going to lunch with, who are you inviting, who are you having over, who you network events anyway, you get the idea. So I really want you thinking about who you're spending time with who's in the first degree connections who's in the second degree connections and and how much time you're spending with them. And I want you thinking about opportunities that you consider from a career standpoint. There are informal and formal ways to think about what I'm talking about, right? The formal way is when I decided to join the consulting firm that I went to work for. That was based on the the access I would get to new first degree connections. That's, I mean I didn't say it that way at the time but that's what it was. So that's a formal decision that I made about where I was going to be employed, where I was going to work what I was going to do. Then informal decisions would be the lunches and the conferences and the networking and the breakfast and the who you're calling and who you're reaching out to and who you're bouncing ideas with. You've got to get into that second degree layer more because there's just a ton of great ideas and wisdom and and and and connections so to speak in that layer that could benefit you and the organization you work for. All right am I giving you something to think about I hope so much of um uh of what I think about at this stage in my career my life are the people I spend time with how much value are they bringing how many ideas do they have how active are they in growing their network and expanding their mindset coming up with new ideas trying new things I'm tapping them for every idea they've got I'm constantly asking them and and the way that they're able to my first degree connections the way they're able to bring good ideas is if they're tapping into their first and second degree connections. And the same is true for me.

SPEAKER_03:

That's what I want you thinking about in this episode of the Lead in 30 podcast share this episode with a colleague, your team or a friend tap on the share button and text the link thanks for listening to the lead in thirty podcast with Russell and so we can say